robert
02-10-2010, 01:35 AM
PEC-Memphis, from GlockTalk.Com, was nice enough to put this together for me. I had asked why on some occasions, on Glock firearms,would the slide automatically go forward when seating a new magazine. In other words, shoot till empty, slide locks back, release magazine, seat a new one, sometimes the slide would go forward again without having to pull the slide back for the spring to kick in.
I thought this explained it pretty well.
When the magazine runs dry and the chambered round is fired, the slide is locks back unless there is an abnormal condition, such as a squib, light load, or (most likely) a broken magazine follower.
With regard to your question about law enforcement training, I think you are asking if LE training would account for the fact that (some particular) Glock firearms tend to drop the slide (sometimes) when seating the magazine, then recognize that the slide didn't drop and rack the slide if it did not drop.
A can't speak for all LE training, but I know two LE trainers - one for the Memphis Police Department and the other at the Glock factory. Neither addresses that the slide might drop when inserting a magazine. (Although the last time I checked - SIG still has the contract for the MPD).
Chances are, if the officer has really taken the time to train, and reacts properly, the officer is going to manually* operate the slide irregardless as to if the slide dropped on magazine seating. If the slide did "automatically" drop, the officer is probably going to eject a live round. But that's better than trying to fire a pistol with the slide still locked back and/or waiting to see if it did "automatically" drop. I know some (typically low level) competitive action pistol shooters who expect the slide to drop from lock back when the magazine is inserted, and if it doesn't they keep "tapping" the magazine until it does. My personal opinion is that this is a bad habit to learn.
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*I know that there are a lot of "you're wrong, I'm right" about manual racking vs. using the slide stop - and more "I'm right, you're wrong" about how to manually rack the slide.
Most (good) LE trainers will teach to manually operate the slide when reloading. Most (good) LE trainers will teach to rotate the ejection port down when manually racking - for right-handers this is usually the "overhand method", for most left-handers this is the "sling-shot" or "thumb & finger pinch" method. By rotating the ejection port down, gravity helps clear a stoppage.
Why do most good LE trainers teach manual slide operation?
1. This ingrains the same muscle memory for loading as for a stoppage drill.
2. It is almost 100% cross-platform in operation among semi-auto pistols. In other words this method works for Sigs, Glocks, 1911’s, Rugers, S&W, etc. As an example, if someone develops muscle memory for using the slide stop on a Glock, and SIG wins the next contract with the agency, they are probably going to have problems. (As the Sig slide stop is much further towards the muzzle than a Glock.)
3. It is ambidextrous, it teaches (almost) the same method to both right and left handers.
4. Generally, most LE officers do not practice often enough to develop muscle memory to operate the slide stop under stressful conditions. On the other hand, most competitive shooters (especially right-handers) DO practice enough to use the slide stop sub-consciously through muscle memory. Personally, have to make a concentrated effort to NOT use the slide stop. I practice stoppage drills, combined with a few stoppages in competition, to not confuse using the slide stop with proper stoppage clearing. And there are quite a few competitive shooters who operate several locations of controls (slide stop, safeties, magazine releases) very proficiently.
I thought this explained it pretty well.
When the magazine runs dry and the chambered round is fired, the slide is locks back unless there is an abnormal condition, such as a squib, light load, or (most likely) a broken magazine follower.
With regard to your question about law enforcement training, I think you are asking if LE training would account for the fact that (some particular) Glock firearms tend to drop the slide (sometimes) when seating the magazine, then recognize that the slide didn't drop and rack the slide if it did not drop.
A can't speak for all LE training, but I know two LE trainers - one for the Memphis Police Department and the other at the Glock factory. Neither addresses that the slide might drop when inserting a magazine. (Although the last time I checked - SIG still has the contract for the MPD).
Chances are, if the officer has really taken the time to train, and reacts properly, the officer is going to manually* operate the slide irregardless as to if the slide dropped on magazine seating. If the slide did "automatically" drop, the officer is probably going to eject a live round. But that's better than trying to fire a pistol with the slide still locked back and/or waiting to see if it did "automatically" drop. I know some (typically low level) competitive action pistol shooters who expect the slide to drop from lock back when the magazine is inserted, and if it doesn't they keep "tapping" the magazine until it does. My personal opinion is that this is a bad habit to learn.
======
*I know that there are a lot of "you're wrong, I'm right" about manual racking vs. using the slide stop - and more "I'm right, you're wrong" about how to manually rack the slide.
Most (good) LE trainers will teach to manually operate the slide when reloading. Most (good) LE trainers will teach to rotate the ejection port down when manually racking - for right-handers this is usually the "overhand method", for most left-handers this is the "sling-shot" or "thumb & finger pinch" method. By rotating the ejection port down, gravity helps clear a stoppage.
Why do most good LE trainers teach manual slide operation?
1. This ingrains the same muscle memory for loading as for a stoppage drill.
2. It is almost 100% cross-platform in operation among semi-auto pistols. In other words this method works for Sigs, Glocks, 1911’s, Rugers, S&W, etc. As an example, if someone develops muscle memory for using the slide stop on a Glock, and SIG wins the next contract with the agency, they are probably going to have problems. (As the Sig slide stop is much further towards the muzzle than a Glock.)
3. It is ambidextrous, it teaches (almost) the same method to both right and left handers.
4. Generally, most LE officers do not practice often enough to develop muscle memory to operate the slide stop under stressful conditions. On the other hand, most competitive shooters (especially right-handers) DO practice enough to use the slide stop sub-consciously through muscle memory. Personally, have to make a concentrated effort to NOT use the slide stop. I practice stoppage drills, combined with a few stoppages in competition, to not confuse using the slide stop with proper stoppage clearing. And there are quite a few competitive shooters who operate several locations of controls (slide stop, safeties, magazine releases) very proficiently.